We vaccinate our children on a delayed (and somewhat selective) schedule. We do this because we think it is the right thing to do, for our children and for society at large.
Some people say that vaccinations don’t work. I would like to point to exhibit A – the HiB vaccine. This vaccine, released in the last twenty years, has taken the Haemophilus influenzae type b bacteria that is the #1 cause of meningitis in infants and toddlers and virtually erradicated it. You know, the meningitis that used to be one of the leading causes of death in infants and toddlers, as well as comas, paralysis, mental retardation, etc. HiB related infections used to number over 20,000 a year in the US in the mid 1980s. Now there are less than 100 a year, often in unvaccinated populations (there was a big outbreak amongst the Amish a few years back.) Since hygiene and other factors haven’t changed much in the last 20 years, I’d say the evidence points directly and decisively to the effectiveness of this vaccine.
I could go on, but I’m not a doctor and I won’t. If you believe that vaccinations work on any level and that herd immunity is a reality (which I think the evidence clearly demonstrates) I think you should vaccinate your children. This conclusion was solidified for me when I heard someone who professes to be a Christian and is a member of an evangelical church say that she was glad that lower income kids were pressured into vaccinating so that their immunity could help to protect her (unimmunized) kids. I wanted to vomit. It’s the anti-gospel. If you believe something is helpful to society at large if everyone takes a small risk, you should take that risk, too. Sacrificial living is the essence of the Christian walk. That doesn’t mean that you need to hand over your 2 day old for a Hep B vaccine. With the assistance of good books, doctors and other wise counsel (I like Stephanie Cave’s book a lot, but I haven’t read everything out) you can come up with a good schedule for your family that minimizes the risk to your children but gets them the vaccines at appropriate times (Lexi’s first vaccine was HiB at 5 months, when the risk of infection starts to rise.) You can also know the safest times to give them. I do think this should be something parents consider thoughtfully as vaccinations aren’t without risk. And there are some you may choose to delay indefinitely. It’s your choice. Just my conclusions so far.
I love that book! I’m not done with it so I guess I shouldn’t say that but so far, it’s probably the most balanced one I’ve read.
Evelyn hasn’t received any vaccines yet because I haven’t reached any conclusions so far, but I am getting closer, thanks to books like Dr. Cave’s. We will probably go with delayed and selective vaccination as well.
As you know, I disagree. I don’t necessarily disagree that the hep b vaccination works, but why would I risk a reaction when hep b is a sexually transmitted disease?
I was talking about HiB not Hep B, which is a completely different vaccine (see explanation in post.)
We have not vaccinated for Hep B at all, at this point. We might when they are a bit older (there is no rush at the moment) and might not.
I third the recommendation for Cave’s book. It’s well written and balanced (but not in a compromising way).
I disagree with some of the things you’ve said, but certainly respect your informed decision. If only all parents were as informed on this issue as you and I.
Ok, I misread that. Sorry.
it sounds like you may vaccinate on the same sort of schedule we do…so now i am going to the library to check out this book.
Kristen (and I don’t want to involve myself in a debate – I’m so done with debating right now), do you have concerns about the long-term effects of vaccinations? I’m just wondering.
I have much more concerns about immediate effects, which is why I choose how and when to vaccinate carefully.
I do think that even beyond herd immunity, vaccinations are beneficial to my children. The WHO has claimed that since HiB was introduced, they can’t prove a single instance in lab testing where a vaccinated child contracted meningitis from the HiB bacteria. And the WHO is much “crunchier” and alternative than the AAP, etc.
Hey, thanks for the review.
This is very much along the lines of what we have planned to do for this next little one. I”m not against vaccinations in total, just some things about them: too early (young), thimerisal, multi-vaccs at once, etc. I do need to get that book. Thanks for listing it.
I agree completely. We always postpone (much to the dismay of our pediatrician) the 2 day old Hep B vaccine. Fortunately while our ped. may not agree with our decision they do give us the freedom to do as we choose.
Thank you for telling the story of the mother who is glad that all those low income kids get vaccinated so that her unvaccinated children are protected. Free-riding on other people’s vaccinations really bothers me.
I’m sad to hear Hepatitis B described as a sexually transmitted disease. I had it when I was four years old and it was not sexually transmitted to me. I’m glad my kids are vaccinated against it.
I disagree with your Christian friend in that I believe massive inoculations are actually an exploitation of the poor. I also can’t relate to your friend because I have heard people say that they think unvaccinated children are a risk to the vaccinated!
I have found the crib death research in the book, Vaccination – 100 Years of Orthodox Research by Viera Scheibner, Ph.D. to be very compelling.
I think you are wise to look into this issue.
Susie is right; Hep B is not just a sexually transmitted disease. (Google “hepatitis b transmission” for plenty of links saying otherwise.) Hep B can be transferred through blood, saliva, mucus, semen, vaginal fluid and breast milk. I’ve confirmed this with my mother (an RN) who says that Hep B is the reason school teachers need to put on gloves before treating a child with a bloody injury.
My pediatrician’s office does not use vaccinations with thimerosal and my child hasn’t had any problems with multiple vaccinations at one time. There are risks associated with this of course, but they are slight compared to the risks you choose when you don’t vaccinate.
Hot topic here, Kristen! ; ) Thanks for opening the dialogue. It’s nice to hear folks debate without personal insults.
I’m really sorry, Susie. :(
I am glad everyone has been so civil and able to dialogue about this hot topic. I have the best readers ;) Like I said in the original post, if you don’t think vaccinations work, I don’t have any problem with you choosing not to vaccinate your children. I only have issues with people who gloat about their free-riding.
I’m sorry that my comment about hep b was offensive. It’s what my midwife told me. It is true, though. AIDS is also considered an STD and can be transmitted in all those other ways too (blood transfusion, breastmilk, semen, saliva). I’m not saying that people who get hep b are sexually promiscuous. It originates as an STD and like AIDS, can be carried through other means beyond that. There are many innocent victims of AIDS as well.
And again, Kristen, I am sorry for misinterpreting your post. I’m not sure how I read hib b to be hep b. I’ll just attribute it to the fact that I had a sleepless night with a teething child. ;)
Er, HiB. Yes, I need to go to bed!
“During the 1970s and 1980s, there were an estimated 16,000 to 20,000 Hib infections per year in the United States…Hib infections occurred at a much lower rate during the 1940s and 1950s. In fact, Hib rates jumped 400 percent between 1946 and 1986.
Several factors indicate that mass immunization campaigns with pertussis and other non-Hib vaccines may have been responsible for the unprecedented epidemics of invasive bacterial infections, such as Hib, during the 1970s and 1980s.”
~from http://www.thinktwice.com/hib.htm
On that note, if you look at the case number charts for most diseases that we now vaccinate against, they look like roller coasters.
“Children who receive multiple doses of the Haemophilus influenzae b (Hib) vaccine are at increased risk of developing type I juvenile-onset diabetes, according to new American research.
When researchers in Baltimore compared children who had received four, one and no doses of the vaccine, the cumulative incidence of diabetes per 100,000 in the three groups was 261, 237 and 207 at age 7 and 398, 376 and 340 at age 10, respectively. This works out to be that the greatest increased risk is among children who receive the full quotient of the vaccine.”
http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?Id=2984
How did you factor that into your decisions to vaccinate and your decision to delay vaccination?
Rick,
My research led me to find that the largest studies on diabetes and HiB have found no link, in Germany, Finland and the US. Apparently, the study in Baltimore was published as a letter to the editor and never peer reviewed and has been discredited by larger studies.
DeStefano F, Mullooly JP, Okoro CA, et al. Childhood vaccinations, vaccination timing, and risk of type 1 diabetes mellitus. Pediatrics 2001;108:e112.
The EURODIAB Substudy 2 Study Group. Infections and vaccinations as risk factors for childhood Type 1 (insulin-dependent) diabetes mellitus: a multicentre case-control investigation. Diabetologia 2000;43:47-53.
Blom L, Nystrom L, Dahlquist G. The Swedish childhood diabetes study: Vaccinations and infections as risk determinants for diabetes in childhood. Diabetologia 1991;34:176-181.
Disease statistics are tricky especially because autopsies weren’t performed as frequently and now we are more certain of cause of death than before. Even if HiB was only infecting 5,000 children per year in the 1940s (which I doubt), 5,000 to less than 100 is still very significant and 5,000 to 20,000 to 100 is not the sort of ebb and flow you would expect in infectious diseases.
Bacterial meningitis can kill a small child in a matter of hours, and HiB is very resistant to antibiotics. I am very glad that the HiB vaccine has led to such a dramatic decline of this very serious condition.
Like I have said from the beginning, if you don’t believe vaccinations work, I have no problem with you not vaccinating your children. *shrug*
“Apparently, the study in Baltimore was published as a letter to the editor and never peer reviewed and has been discredited by larger studies.”
A quick search on the net points to several journal articles about other studies that agree with the Baltimore study (for example, Finnish doctor, J Bartholomew Classen’s more recent 2002 article in Autoimmunity 35:247-253).
As you said, disease statistics are tricky and can be used in a lot of ways. The vaccine companies have paid out millions to those who contracted Diabetes and other diseases from vaccines. I mean, the government paid out 370 million to those injured from vaccines in 2004 through the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (good ole tax dollars…that’s where they went), and that’s the amount the victims were compensated before they took legal action against the vaccine manufacturers.
I’m sure you have your statistics that will say otherwise. I think it’s a lot more complicated than we who just read a few books or articles (on each side of the debate) make it out to be.
And I agree with you that the “free ride” notion is a bit dumb, but I don’t think it’s anti-gospel. I think that’s taking it a bit far. I feel that woman was probably just thankful that she didn’t feel an urgency to do something that could be potentially harmful to her child.
You have to remember that many of us against vaccines deal with a lot of flack, so it’s important to show grace with something like that (as it is for someone against vaccines to show grace to those people we think may be doing a harmful or unethical thing to their children).
From a quick glance at the summary, the control group being before the study could explain away the whole thing as juvenille diabetes has been on the rise steadily in Finland (and elsewhere) for some time.
I have never ever claimed that vaccinating is without risk. I just believe that most of the time (there are exceptions that we do not vaccinate for) the diseases are a greater risk to my children and society than the vaccine.
The conversation was in the context of a group very friendly to non-vaxing (most people did not vax) and she was talking about how she knew that vaccines worked but she would never want to put “her precious children” at risk and was glad that most parents, especially lower-income people, just didn’t know the risks of vaccinating so that herd immunity still “worked.”
I left without saying a word to her. But I will never forget how disgusted I felt.
Hi Kristen,
A very emotive subject!
I worked as a Health Visitor (like your Public Health nurses I think) for some years before the birth of our first son, it was around the time when the first round of media scare stories emerged about the MMR vaccine.
I read all the reasearch I could find (I was asked about it on a weekly basis) about all the vaccines. I also had long conversations with my senior Helath Visitor who was nearing retirement. She described to me how as a young nurse she cared for children who went on to die, or were left damaged from measles and whooping cough. Most nurses (and parents) nowadays have never seen a child with these illneses and perhaps as a consequence underestimate the risks associated with these diseases.
Vaccines are not risk free – no medication of any kind is – but I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.
Interestingly, in the UK we don’t routinely vaccinate children for Hep B, Influenza,Rotavirus and Varicella. There are no more mercury based vaccines either.
Kristen,
Wow. If that woman actually said she was glad the low-income people were unaware of the risks, I agree that that’s pretty horrible…you didn’t mention that part before. That’s sad that someone wouldn’t want another person to be informed. :(
Both Rick and I know you’re aware of the risks. I don’t think Rick was trying to say that you didn’t believe there were risks. You just came to the conclusion that the risks are worth taking, whereas we came to the conclusion that they are not. It’s a very grey issue, and I’ll admit I get on the defensive whenever someone encourages me to vaccinate. My child is my top priority. There’s no way I could, in good conscience, vaccinate her. But if you can vaccinate with good conscience, more power to you! I’m glad that you are an informed parent. I just feel that many pro-vaccine people are judgmental on us non-vaxers (even when they act like they’re not), silently thinking that we’re not doing what’s good for society.
The end. :)
The standing position, and quite reasonable and thoroughly supported, IMHO, is that both Hep B vaccines and the HiB vaccine are not specifically linked to increased rates of Type I DM. It should be noted that there have been many attempts to link vaccines to numerous conditions, including autism, but there have been no conclusive links (and even some studies to the opposite – namely that thimerosal-containing MMR vaccines resulted in a lower rate of autism in a GIGANTIC Danish study).
It is plausible that, in certain subpopulations with certain genotypes, a vaccine may elicit an immune response increases their risk of Type I DM based on the specific protein makeup of their islet cells, but that has only been postulated, and the body of literature is not significant enough to be able to definitively say that is what happens. It has long been thought that SOME sort of immune response is responsible for DM I, but the question remains: what is that priming incident/factor? We don’t know yet, and we’re not sure that it will be a single thing.
Also, nothing against Dr. Classen and others, but generally speaking, those articles linking vaccines and DM I are published in less reputable journals, which is, of course, a double-edged sword, but generally means the quality of the research is slightly less than ideal.
A more recent NEJM article from 2004 seems to be quite robust, showing no linkage.
I am disappointed that there are people who think like that woman does, namely that it’s better/morally justifiable for the poor, uneducated to take the risks for the richer, more educated. That is one of the major problems with the way the 3rd world is seen by much of medicine.
As the spouse of a pediatrician, I am very glad that she does not have to treat Haemophilus meningitis, because it really doesn’t show up much. Older pediatricians told her stories of how they used to see a kid die a week in the ER of that disease prior to the vaccine. Now they don’t even see it come in. I think I can say definitively that both anecdotal experience and studies have shown the HiB vaccine to have effectively eradicated HiB meningitis in the vaccinated population.
As noted by many already, any medical intervention (or the decision to not use a specific intervention) has risks and benefits. Choosing not to treat (or to treat) something will always have risks. Fundamentally, there have to be decisions made about what risks are worth taking. I have always thought, and continue to think, that vaccines are worth the risk. That is not to minimize the pain and difficulties that arise when someone DOES have a bad reaction to a vaccine. However, I do not think that because of these bad reactions that the society at large should forego vaccines.
The quote about the amount of $ paid out by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program should be seen in light of the fact that no vaccine is perfect, and that real risks and bad outcomes DO occur, and that people ought to be justly compensated for such bad outcomes. That number is large, but people forget that health care is expensive. If a child suffered some sort of life-altering neurological injury, that may be millions of dollars needed over the course of that one child’s lifetime for appropriate care. I don’t know the specific breakdown of where that money goes, and I do not know what it was paid out for, so I will not say more, although I’d love to see more information about that.
Sheena’s comments fall very much in line with what Kathleen and I feel may be contributing to some of this. We saw measles in India. We know kids die of it. That is not a happy thought, knowing that a vaccine would have saved that child’s life. Many in the west simply do not realize what some of these diseases can do. It’s also not necessarily just the disease itself while someone has it, but also possible longer-term consequences that may result from having the disease, or acquiring it later in life (specifically with diseases like rubella and varicella). We just don’t know what it’s like to see babies born with congenital rubella much in the states, although I’m sure many other countries know it all too well, and the accompanying morbidity and mortality.
I’m reading that book right now, and I think I agree with you.
I agree that some other cultures could really benefit from vaccines, but I think they would equally benefit from better sanitation and nutrition. I believe that if there is a natural alternative, it’s the best choice. I do my best to provide the best nutrition to my daughter, as well as minimum exposure. If I help her to build a strong immune system, even if she did contract something like the mumps or chicken pox or even hiB, the chances of that developing into something very serious is much less. I just kind of wish our country would address the real health problems and reasons that, even in a civilized country, our children still seem so susceptible to disease (one of those reasons being the fact that most American children inhale junk food on a daily basis). I’m also just not comfortable with the fact that vaccines, to some degree, all have a negative impact on our immune system in general, and so while they’re protecting us against some things, they’re opening the door just a bit wider for other diseases that don’t we don’t have vaccinations for. I just wonder if that’s part of the reason that more and more vaccines are being created. Eventually we’ll just have to see that we can’t limitlessly protect our children against disease. Most of the ones we choose to protect them against would, in the majority of cases, not be too severe. (I do believe that polio is a serious disease, but seeing as how it’s usually contracted through ingesting fecal matter, and most cases came from public swimming pools, we can use hygiene and common sense and avoid all public swimming pools, if that’s what it takes, rather than taking the risk of the vaccine.) Kristen’s statistics on the HiB vaccine are the only ones that I’ve heard that somewhat convince me that it could, for some people, be worth it. I’m not always anti-vaccine, and I’m definitely pro immunity. I’d just rather take a more natural route, which is my general philosophy toward health issues. Like I said before, I couldn’t get myself to vaccinate my daughter and feel good about it. If it goes against your conscience not to vax, you certainly should vaccinate. I honestly don’t think we’ll really know the whole truth about vaccines for many, many years. I know that medical knowledge has come a long way, but there have been some crazy ideas in the past where the majority got on the bandwagon, and the minortiy turned out to be right…so I feel fine being in the minority. ;)
Ok, now I’m embarrassed to see how long that was! lol
If I’m reading you correctly, you would prefer the “natural route.” However, just because something is natural does not make it good. I could go on and on about things that are “natural” such as the natural course of rabies, or invasive Haemophilus infections, or cyanide. All are “naturally” occurring, and our body has no way of stopping any of those things once they get into our bodies past a certain point. Rabies, without the vaccine, is uniformly deadly. Cyanide, without the antidote, is uniformly deadly once you get a big enough dose. Haemophilus meningitis (or the more commonly occurring pneumococcal meningitis) has a very high rate of morbidity and mortality. Mumps is a naturally occurring disease. As is varicella, measles, and numerous other quite serious illnesses.
The reason we don’t see them in our culture is NOT merely because of sanitation, although it has played quite an important role, but since they are QUITE virulent diseases, preparing our immune systems to see the virus is what prevents a lot of morbidity and mortality. We still have mumps outbreaks in the US among less vaccinated populations (the midwest just earlier this year).
Also, I’m wondering about what you mean when you say “I’m also just not comfortable with the fact that vaccines, to some degree, all have a negative impact on our immune system in general, and so while they’re protecting us against some things, they’re opening the door just a bit wider for other diseases that don’t we don’t have vaccinations for.” I don’t quite follow what you’re saying.
Everything I know about vaccines does exactly the opposite. It forces our immune system to respond to either a crippled or totally dead aspect of the pathogen in question, thus preparing it to see the pathogen in the future, and respond robustly in the future so that we don’t get a more full-blown infection.
Just because something is fecal-oral transmission doesn’t mean it’s easy to prevent. It only takes 10 Shigella organisms to give you a very bad diarrhea. Kids are also very prone to touching stuff from all over (outside, inside) without washing their hands, and then sticking their hands in their mouths or on their food. Look at schools, churches, etc. today. Much is aerosolized as well – measles, mumps, influenza, TB, some organisms that cause the common cold, etc.
Kristen’s statistics for HiB are essentially the same, if not larger numbers, for many of our vaccinations – polio, measles, mumps, rubella, pneumococcus, etc.
It could be that the perception that vaccines “open the door wider” for other infections is because now that we have fewer cases of one thing (say the mumps) means that person, who would have died from mumps 60 years ago, will instead live, and get sick from something else (klebsiella pneumonia) that we don’t have a vaccine for yet.
Also, as a response to Rick’s comment WAY above re: #s of HiB and so forth. Reporting back then was not NEARLY as good as it is now. We culture EVERYTHING that we think might be HiB, or any other identifiable cause of meningitis, so that we can track what is causing what, and so we can tailor antibiotic therapy to be most effective with the fewest # of side effects.
As Kristen said, the risks, while real and true, are far outweighed by the benefits. Most vaccines are fairly old, and definitely tried and true. While we don’t know the 70+ year out effects of vaccines, we also don’t know 70+ year out effects of nearly every antibiotic we use, but there isn’t the same backlash against using those. In fact, most medications used by doctors today were developed in the last 30-40 years, and some even more recently than that.
Well, what I was saying about the “natural route” was that if there is a HEALTHY natural alternative, it’s best to take that. I think it twists my words a little to say that I believe that letting rabies take its natural course is the way to go. I never said I didn’t believe in medical intervention. I just don’t believe it’s always necessary.
Here’s what I meant by vaccines suppressing our immune systems:
“All vaccines are immune depressing to some extent and that is the trade-off we are risking. The medical thought is that we trade a small immune depression for an immunity to one disease. Now let me repeat, we are trading a total immune system depression (our only defense against all known disease – including millions of pathogens) for a temporary immunity against one disease, usually an innocuous childhood disease.” (taked from http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/immune_suppression.htm )
Well, I’ve never heard of the guy, but am wary of anyone making such claims on their for-profit website, also claiming that AIDS is linked to vaccines. He would be a fairly typical example of a quack. But that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s wrong.
However, the things he does say about vaccines depressing certain aspects of the immune system, while they might be accurate (don’t know – he doesn’t actually cite the article he gets his info from, so I can’t verify any of his claims), are an incomplete story.
The immune system has 2 parts – the humoral (or antibody-based) half, and the cell-mediated half. Most vaccines try to elicit a humoral (antibody-based) response. In doing so, certain immune signals are released (cytokines) which push the appropriate development of certain cell lines (namely those responsible for humoral immunity). Those same signals also down-regulate the other half, the cell-mediated side, while the other half is ramping up. That cell-mediated half doesn’t stay depressed. When something else comes around that needs the cell-mediated half to respond (some bacteria, viruses and fungi), other cytokines are released to stimulate that half to respond.
So while it may be true that a vaccine will temporarily depress the cell-mediated half (PMNs, lymphocytes) as the humoral half does its thing to form antibodies and memory B cells to fight off future attacks of a certain thing, it is disingenuous for him to say that we’re depressing the immune system.
Additionally, he never actually cites the article, so no one can rebut his claim, or see if the research was done well, or verified by others with repeated studies. Cherry-picking studies is a good way to prove ANYTHING. The question is what the preponderence of evidence shows. In that regard, vaccines have saved millions of lives outright, and probably prevented something on the order of tens of millions of life-years of morbidity.
Unfortunately, I have found Dr. Mercola to be disingenous and completely incorrect on several different occasions, which makes me doubt anything he says, even though I do tend to seek alternative and natural health care. In fact, I interviewed a medical accupuncturist / family practice doctor today.
So I think I may have found the article he was referring to. There are no other known published articles to further support this small series (15 patients). It is only cited by 4 other papers per scholar.google.com, none of them which deal with the claim that Dr. Mercola is making.
Effect of measles-mumps-rubella vaccination on polymorphonuclear neutrophil functions in children. Acta Paediatr. 1992 Nov;81(11):887-90.
Toraldo R, Tolone C, Catalanotti P, Ianniello R, D’Avanzo M, Canino G, Galdiero F, Iafusco F.
Adherence, metabolic burst and chemotaxis of polymorphonuclear neutrophils (PMNs) were examined in 15 children before and seven days after measles-mumps-rubella vaccine administration. In all children, PMN functions were significantly reduced on the seventh day. Adherence, metabolic burst and chemotaxis tested in three subjects one month after vaccination had returned to normal values. Only two children presented transient hyperpyrexia. We conclude that measles-mumps-rubella vaccine administration suppresses PMN functions without clinical consequences. This is probably because attenuated strains of vaccine viruses do not replicate in lymphoid tissues as extensively as do wild-type strains.
It is worth noting that even the authors believe this suppression to be without clinical consequences, and have a postulated mechanism of action. I would guess that Dr. Toraldo would disagree vehemently with the conclusion that Dr. Mercola is drawing from this one series of 15 patients, who never showed any clinical consequences of the said depression.
After further investigation, I am more and more convinced that at the least, Dr. Mercola does not accurately present himself.
He’s definitely disingenuous in how he lists his publications. Instead of accurately explaining what things are, he lists web-based “rapid response” letters on the BMJ website as a “publication” alongside other commentary/letters/review publications in print, without differentiating between the two, making his “CV” appear more robust.
Kristen,
I looked on the Amazon site about Stefanie Cave’s book and the reviews seem to show that people either like it or hate it. Is this book really that polarizing?
I have a friend who wants to read up on the subject before she vaccinates her 4 month old. I don’t want to recomend a book that is just pushing an agenda.
“Well, I’ve never heard of the guy, but am wary of anyone making such claims on their for-profit website, also claiming that AIDS is linked to vaccines. He would be a fairly typical example of a quack. But that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s wrong.”
I totally understand your apprehension. After all, I am wary of studies on the safety and efficacy of vaccines being conducted by groups that profit from its multi-billion dollar industry.
I don’t know much about Dr. Mercola, I’ll admit, but other researchers have come to the same conclusion regarding vaccines and our immune system. From my observance, non-vaccinated children do tend to be healthier. But I understand that I’m not a doctor and haven’t conducted any studies on it. It’s just what I’ve seen.
I’m out of the debate now! :) I don’t have time to keep coming back here. I think it’s easy to argue circles around this sort of issue where nothing is 100% proven one way or another. Plus, it can be frustrating to have evidence that is contrary to the popular opinion to be so quickly dismissed. But I suppose I can understand why.
Amy,
I have friends who fully vaccinate and don’t vaccinate at all who both love the book, and I really think it is extremely balanced. Rachael (first comment) has been reading up on vaxes and has read several and she said (in her comment) “I love that book! I’m not done with it so I guess I shouldn’t say that but so far, it’s probably the most balanced one I’ve read.”
If it has any agenda, it’s to inform. I guess some people want to be blissfully ignorant?
Doctors do not profit from vaccines. They give them, but when everything is calculated, the nursing costs, the costs of refrigeration, the cost of throwing out unused vaccines, when totaled up, are less than what is billable to most insurance companies/medicaid/medicare. For most doctors, because of the way the system is set up in the US, there isn’t much reimbursement for vaccines, preventive care, or counseling (especially for chronic conditions like diabetes, obesity, and high blood pressure).
The way the system is set up, reimbursements where doctors “make money” are really in things called procedures – surgeries, endoscopies, colonoscopies, epidurals, heart catheterizations, paracenteses, injections, etc. where you’re doing something with your hands, and not just thinking or talking.
The other thing I’d just like to put out there for those who are interested in autism and the purported link between thimerosal and autism. During the last 35-40 years, the very definition of autism has changed significantly, and the diagnosis has been tossed around for many children with developmental problems that may or may not actually be autism, properly and rigorously defined.
Unfortunately, that is the case with many developmental disorders, and as such, the #s reported of such cases may or may not be even close to reality, especially when looking in the past.